The Deep Thinkers strike back!
In our first Q&A episode we answer your questions on a wide range of topics, including:
– When can women speak in church gatherings, and in what ways?
– Is Paul’s teaching on head coverings in 1 Corinthians 11 applicable today?
– If someone is unwilling to repent, is a Christian required to forgive Him?
– 1 Corinthians 7:3-5 says each spouse’s body belongs to the other. To what degree does this apply?
To submit your questions for our next Q&A episode, send them to our Facebook page or to jack@tampaseo.expert
I’m not great at listening and prefer to read. I’m interested in the podcast on women’s roles. Is there a transcript of this I might look at?
Thank you!
Unfortunately we don’t have transcription at this time. It’s an extra cost and isn’t in our budget, but hopefully we’ll add that feature in the future!
Thank you very much for having the courage to address this passage of scripture. Many good points were made regarding this passage not being a cultural matter. I agree with your assessment that the text does not give cultural reasons for the application of this passage but rather it gives divine/sacred reasons: headship (v. 3), being made in the image of God (v. 7), creation order (vs. 8-9), and the angels (v. 10).
With respect to what constitutes a covering, the Greek word kalymma/veil (2 Cor. 3:13) is a noun and is the veil spoken of when Moses veiled his FACE. The Greek word katakalypto/cover is a verb in 1 Cor. 11:6, 7 which describes “the action of covering” one’s HEAD. It literally means to “cover down” on the head. There is no scriptural requirement in 1 Cor. 11:2-16 for a FACE covering. Aside from this, what Moses did during a different dispensation has no bearing on our worship during the Christian dispensation.
Further, the Greek word provides no specificity for dimensions in the “covering down” of the head. Just like we do not mandate how much bread or fruit of the vine we are to consume while participating in the Lord’s Supper, there is also latitude in the head covering instruction with respect the cover’s size, style, fabric, etc. Once someone can get past the false notion that a woman must cover like a Muslim, it’s much easier to accept the idea that this is a necessary instruction for Christians today.
It was said that if a woman were to cover, she would need to cover like the women in the first century. First, there is absolutely no way to fulfill this notion as no-one was present during the first century. Secular historians cannot even agree as to what the customs of that day were. More importantly, the Biblical text does not ground the instruction on the culture or customs of the day, the Bible grounds it on divine and sacred reasons.
Secondly, to be consistent with this idea, should we be partaking the Lord’s Supper like the brethren in the first century did eating a “supper” in the evening which was more like a meal, rather than partaking in a tic-tac-size of “bread” and a tiny sip of the “cup” of the Lord’s Supper? If we must keep things just as the brethren did then in the first century, we would first need to know these facts precisely before we implement. There is some degree of liberty where there are no specifics in the Bible.
The “better-safe-than-sorry” notion is always easier when one is ALREADY doing something. However, “better-safe-than-sorry” becomes a challenge when it demands a change in practice. A woman not commenting in an assembled Bible class to be “better safe than sorry” like you discussed is easy to comply with if it’s already being done. But a woman who comes to the realization that 1 Corinthians 11:2-16 is applicable due to divine reasons and not because of culture, tends to have a problem with a consistent application of “better safe than sorry.”
I believe one of the most substantial reasons for this instruction not being obeyed today is that we just don’t see this obeyed by the majority and to obey this instruction today would put one clearly in the minority. As I am sure you would agree, this reasoning is not sound reasoning to determine whether or not this is a command from God that still should be obeyed by His people. When we neglect to teach on a particular topic, when we neglect to study God’s word, when we allow culture to influence our discernment of scripture, you can be certain this passage will be cast aside much like the Israelites cast aside the construction of the required booths in Nehemiah 8. (One elder emphatically asserted that this passage was not necessary for Christians today but did not even know where to find it in the Bible)
With respect to “praying or prophesying,” I agree with you in that it identifies when the instruction applies. These two actions make it clearly specific for religious activity, not social activity. It is not to be done 24/7 and is not relevant to anything outside of this context.
Prayer is speaking from man to God -proseuchomenos- to pray to God, to supplicate or worship. Prophesy is speaking from God to man – prophemi – to speak forth. It was done miraculously during the age of inspiration and non-miraculously after the age of inspiration. This makes it specific for religious activity, not social activity.
The entire phrase can be understood as a synecdoche for the totality of worship. We see the same application with “eats and drinks” in the Lord’s Supper (1 Cor. 11:29), “believes and is baptized” for the plan of salvation (Mark 16:16) and physical components in “flesh and blood” (Eph. 6:12a).
Or this phrase can be viewed as a double synecdoche primarily because of the word “or.” Praying/Prays can be a synecdoche for the worship we offer to God. Prophesying/Prophesies can be a synecdoche for any speaking forth of God’s word, whether miraculously during the 1st century or non-miraculously today by means of teaching, preaching, reading or singing of God’s word. The Holy Spirit’s use of the word “or” is significant.
Further, the consistency of scripture demands that this instruction indicates worship activity where a woman is not leading in a mixed assembly (1 Cor. 14:34-35; 1 Tim. 2:11-14) but is where a woman is worshipping tacitly, where a woman is a participant in worship. When a man leads a prayer for the assembly, we all pray, men and women alike, though only one leads the prayer. Today, when a man engages in non-miraculous prophecy (i.e., a speaking forth from the word of God) for the assembly, we all participate in this prophecy, men and women alike, though only one leads the prophesy. The term, “prays or prophecies” does not necessitate leading in an assembly where men and women are both present. When a woman is leading other women in a ladies day, or in ladies Bible class, she too is in “praying or prophesying.”
This passage is not difficult to understand. I believe, as with any instruction God provides us in His New Covenant, that we have to be exceptionally careful that an unchecked desire to dismiss this command is not creating unnecessary and even possibly illogical impediments in our understanding and obedience.
Thank you again very much for addressing this portion of God’s word. There is so much more to be discussed on this topic so please feel free to reach out for further discussion.